H and R Transport Ltd Lethbridge Alberta

Why are there no 2 yr Temp work permits at H&R?

2011-01-02T12:25:00.001Z

Maybe it's because of this...

Federal amendments set to take effect April 2, 2011 deny employers an LMO for a two-year period if they are found to have contravened the LMO agreements or provincial employment laws. Anecdotally, we heard at our workshop that this policy has already begun to be enforced. The changes, however, only really mean that it is the temporary foreign worker who pays the ultimate price for an employer who breaks the law.

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There were also a few interesting comments on the last post...

Anonymous said...: I worked for hell and regret for a time.I flew to England for a vacation and to see the family and the great HandR cancelled my contract ! If Foder or his arsekissing henchman lyndon ever make the trip back here for recruitment. I hope the plane crashes. (they are back over in February)
7 November 2010 12:41
Anonymous said...: Think I would be avoiding Alberta at the moment as a route to PR via TWP/PNP , The PNP office are taking well over a year just to process any applications at the moment, You could realisticly be looking at nearly 3 years to achieve PR. Not good if you don't like the company you are working for ;-) (Looks like a few are falling at the last post and not getting PR)
7 November 2010 19:52
Anonymous said...: Can you ask your mate lyndon to get me a truck so i can earn some money since i passed the canadian class1 else i will be joining all the others who have gone back very recently.cant they rebadge the trucks sat in the yard and give them to us, we will end up on welfare at this rate.Anything will do. (read this blog, he's not my mate, and they have loads of spare trucks for you... don't they?)
22 November 2010 14:42
Anonymous said...: Mick I wondered if you could post this as I have heard that H&R Transport were on the news in the UK and would be very interested if anybody saw it and could tell me what news program it was on. Apparently it was making lets say "less than favourable" comments about them.Thanks (I didn't see it, but I do know it was on, so would appreciate any more info on that)
30 December 2010 23:42
chris said...: Hi guys,I hadn't seen this site before (I wish I had) and I have just returned to the UK with my tail between my legs thanks to H&R.I would like to do something to warn other drivers before they bankrupt themselves and raise awareness about the differences in what Lyndon says and the facts, so the more the merrier if you have a story or want to be involved then email me arnoldsdog@hotmail.co.ukthanks Chris (Chris, it's your fault that you couldn't hack it over there. H&R can do no wrong, but good luck with your vendetta against them (just kidding))

Are the big firms the only ones with LMO's?

2010-11-06T11:10:00.002Z

My mate is struggling to find an LMO with any small firms in Alberta as they seem to have problems getting them, whereas the big companies give them out for fun.
S, does anyone have any info on smaller reputable companies in AB who have LMO's (not just promises of LMO's) for Temporary Foreign Workers who are still in Canada, or indeed wishing to come across from Europe?

If so, please leave the details in the comments box, thanks.

I'm still getting anonymous comments (I'm not allowing most of them) from people who say they have been hard done to by H&R regarding low miles and excessive sitting around for free, so much so that in some cases they have de-bunked back to the UK.

If you are one of the anonymous commentators, please grow some balls and use your real name, otherwise they will never change their ways, although I doubt they will anyway as long as so many are willing to 'suck it up'.

Wow

2010-08-09T01:12:00.001+01:00

A massive increase in hits to this blog, it must be the link from the youtube page!
Maybe the Transport minister will read it, eh?

Temporary foreign worker program is not immigration

2010-06-18T19:27:00.001+01:00

From the Edmonton Sun, today...

“Canada is a country that was built by immigrants,” he says. “But the temporary foreign worker program is not immigration. It’s a thinly-disguised guest worker program that creates an under class of exploitable workers.”

Recruiters, meanwhile, lure workers to Canada by telling them it’s a foot in the door for immigration, says Andriuk, who says some of her clients were told by recruiters in their homeland that they can come here under a temporary visa and work their way to permanent residency.

“It puts entire families in very precarious positions,” she says.

Some, from countries like Britain and Germany, sell their homes in anticipation of immigrating. A few have become so distraught that Andriuk has had to refer them to mental health workers.

Source.

Got another job.

2010-06-16T22:09:00.002+01:00

My mate has managed to get an LMO, and therefore another job driving long haul in Alberta, but it was a shame that H&R didn't give a damn about either him or his family, and their reputation was certainly well known amongst the employers he was approaching (along with many other ex H&R drivers).

There seems to be some movement on LMO's now, just be careful who you choose to work for.

Who has all the LMO's in Alberta?

2010-04-28T21:42:00.002+01:00

After being sacked by H&R (after 16 months) , a friend of mine is struggling to find an employer with LMO's and may have to return to the UK with his family to become another failed immigrant thanks to the Canadian Governments total lack of control against rogue companies, who employ foreign workers.

Even if a job is found, then all the money paid to VRV immigration is lost as the process of PR has to ALL OVER AGAIN!

Be aware, if you are sacked by any company in Canada whilst you are a Temporary Foreign Worker, you are screwed, as long as the company claim 'just cause', then there does not appear to be any burden of proof required...in other words, you can be finished summarily anytime.

Don't think it can't happen to you, and if you have moved your family to Canada, and can't find employment you WILL have to leave the country, as the welfare benefits are not readily available for TFW's.

Have you been sacked by H&R, and managed to find another job?

Do you know anyone who has LMO's for truckers (with 16 months experience) in Canada?

ALL replies will be treated with confidence... mickfly AT gmail.com

TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER TREATMENT

2010-03-28T20:19:00.001+01:00

74% of businesses inspected in Alberta this year were violating the labour code through their treatment of temporary foreign workers, according to government numbers, released by the NDP.

Alberta has the most temporary foreign workers in the country; more than 70,000.

Is the mistreatment of them growing into an embarrassing problem? How are they being abused? What is Alberta doing to prevent the shame of exploitation?

Watch the video here.

50 vacancies at $53,628 plus bonus...nice!

2010-03-08T10:57:00.003Z

Here's an advert for H&R from the Canadian job bank.

Glad to know they've put the rate back up.

It's good to see that some companies are doing well enough to take on another 50 drivers...Let's hope they have 50 spare trucks!

Job Number: 4895433

Title: Long haul truck driver (NOC: 7411)

Terms of Employment: Permanent, Full Time, Weekend, Day, Night, Evening

Salary: $53,628.00 Yearly for 60 hours per week, Bonus

Anticipated Start Date: As soon as possible

Location: Lethbridge, Alberta (50 vacancies )
Skill Requirements:

Education: Not required

Mike's Jollies

2010-02-27T23:59:00.005Z

This comment below from Mike was posted in response to someone who posted negative comments elsewhere and was basically called a liar.

"The stories you read about drivers not getting any layovers are true.

One time I was told I would not get a layover for waiting 36 hours at Cargills in Highriver, the only way I did get paid for it was by having a fit on the phone about the bullshit reason why they tried to get out of paying me it, in the end I only got some of it paid.

When my truck broke down I had to wait in a hotel for 3 days while they fixed the truck I never got a single cent for my waiting time.

Lucky I left my family in the UK and didn't have to look after them. I had loads of good jobs and done plenty of miles while I was working for H&R but the only reason was because I had my blog and loads of readers rang up asking for a job and told Dave Fodder that they had read my blog and they wanted a job just like me.

They looked after me while I was showing the world how good H&R were, then when I said something negative then things started to go down hill from then on.

I have always said the job at H&R transport is not a bad job if you got paid for what you had earned but they use every single dirty trick in the book to con you out of money and what can you do NOTHING.
If the employment agency came in and looked at the books and saw how H&R were ripping people off then I think they would get one hell of a fine. If you dare say anything they use it against you, look at me I said 5 months before I asked about PR that someone was a dumbass they refused me PR because of that and Dave Fodder said I had hissie fits, but if they had paid me what I was told in the first place I wouldn't of had hissie fits.
Never mind I left H&R over 6 months ago its in the past for me. Driving a truck In Canada is a fantastic job for a single guy, you see so many nice sights and you earn a lot more money than a married guy, as a single guy you are always turning around and going again and you have loads of money in the bank and no bills to pay.
If you are a married guy with family to support then it is going to be very hard to survive unless you have a load of money in the bank to go with.

I am so glad now Dave Fodder refused me PR, when I came home in Oct my wife told me she didn't want to move to Canada so it has worked out well for the both of us.

My time in Canada was great but also a real eye opener. They say you get greeted at the airport with a warm hand but they don't tell you they cup you by the balls and if you step out of line once then they squeeze your balls tight.

Its such a shame they sensor the blogs and facebook because you can only see one side of H&R, but the people in the big wide world are not all dumb and they know the bad side of the job and the company

The only time you hear about it is when drivers leave then you are called losers by H&R management. I left because I was fed up with all the bullshit going on and the constant battles with unpaid picks and delivers and layovers, and you were never allowed to reset in your home terminal. After 8 weeks of resets in Calgary I had a hissie fit on the phone and then they let me reset in my home terminal why does it take a driver to have a hissie fit on the phone before he gets a reset in his own terminal!

I had a year of driving all over Canada and America, I left with money in the bank and I have returned to the UK to my 5 bedroom house so how does that make me a loser?

I went to full fill a dream of mine, to drive a truck in America and to see if it’s a place for me and my family, sadly its not a place for my wife to live she hates the cold but never mind I still fulfilled my dream and had a good time."

So, make your own minds up, but first, try asking questions on H&R driver blogs which might require a negative response, and see if they are shown, and also read the forum posts on BTA and other places. Don't simply assume that returning drivers are liars, or it's just sour grapes, because the move you make today could effect the rest of your life.

H&R will facilitate your move to Canada very efficiently, but if, for whatever reason you do not get the miles, and your partner can't get a job, there are no welfare benefits to be had for you, or your wife and kids, and if you upset them, you are finished, because no matter how much work you want to put in...they control the miles you are given (or not given)!

I got a message from Mike Nash this morning, who has started to add to his blog again with news about other companies in Canada who might want to take on fresh Brits, or maybe take drivers from the massive pool of drivers who came back to the UK and still have their Canadian class 1, but may be interested in returning to a different company.

Mikes Blog is Here... Click.

Mike suggests some GOOD companies in Canada here... Click.
..and here.. Click.

Returning to Canada!

2010-02-12T20:38:00.003Z

Return flights to Montreal booked and paid for (not by us) for the end of July.
Never been to Ottawa, I'm sure it'll be nice in summer.

Meanwhile I have requested tax documents from H&R, which are required for my Canadian tax return (to claim a rebate), so let's see how compliant they will be to an ex-employee.

Edit: The documents were sent out to me promptly by H&R.

LMO obligations

2009-11-24T21:51:00.003Z

Further to the comment about Peter being asked to clear his truck I wondered whether Peter was laid off, or sacked, as if he was laid off whilst Europeans are waiting in the wings it would be difficult for H&R to satisfy their obligations to Service Canada, or maybe not, as it is only voluntary!...

[...In addition, there have been changes to the Expedited LMO program which require evidence of recruitment efforts undertaken and a completed detailed questionnaire about the Employer’s workforce.

For all LMO applications, the employer will now be asked to participate in a "Monitoring Initiative" which is a voluntary program in which the employer will be asked to submit documentation demonstrating it has respected the terms of previous offers of employment including wages and working conditions of temporary foreign workers. An employer will have to report any anticipated layoffs or impending changes in the workforce. This information will allow Service Canada to monitor the continued need for foreign workers and ensure Canadian citizens and Permanent Residents are considered first for job opportunities. While this program is voluntary, Service Canada encourages participation to "strengthen the integrity of the program" and more importantly, to demonstrate good standing for consideration in future LMO applications.

Where an employer expects that a temporary foreign worker’s employment will need to be extended, the employer should apply for a new LMO four months prior to expiry.

Service Canada has confirmed that the factors it will consider are:

* Whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to result in direct job creation or job retention for Canadian citizens or Permanent Residents;

* Whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to result in the creation or transfer of skills and knowledge for the benefit of Canadian citizens or permanent residents;

* Whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to fill a labour shortage;

* Whether the wages offered to the foreign national are consistent with the prevailing wage rate for the occupation;

* Whether the working conditions meet generally acceptable Canadian standards;

* Whether the employer has made or has agreed to make reasonable efforts to hire or train Canadian citizens or permanent residents; and

* Whether the employment of the foreign national is likely to adversely affect the settlement of any labour dispute in progress.

Source : Lawson Lundell LLP Legal services

Slaves from Europe?

2009-11-22T22:34:00.003Z

Interesting comment sent today, in reply to an earlier post, here... Driver turnover at H&R Transport.

"I drove for H and R for about 2 years and a few months. Recently DAVEY summons me to the office and asks me to clean out my truck. Guess H and R would rather hire slaves from europe or brokers.......
Good luck
Peter Fowler "

I assume you are a Canadian driver Peter, maybe you could expand your comment a little please?

Defamation?

2009-10-31T01:28:00.003Z

Very interesting that the 'recruiter/driver relations guy' has once again attacked someone (an ex H&R driver) in a public forum (BTA), this time using information against them which he admitted to having since last October.
It's a strange person that hangs on to detrimental info about people for a year, then uses it to discredit them.
Not very professional at all, so, shame on you Lyndon.

Any H&R drivers, or prospective drivers reading this...don't tell Lyndon anything!

Have you finished working at H&R Transport Lethbridge?

2009-10-25T23:37:00.003Z

Do you feel that you were 'starved out' of H&R, or believes that the employment contract was unfair and unreasonable and caused you to earn less than you were promised in the 'contract'. Do you feel they (H&R) breached Fedral Labor laws?

Contact me here:

mickfly AT gmail DOT com

Minister Kenney proposes improvements to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program

2009-10-11T20:20:00.000+01:00

Ottawa, October 9, 2009 — The Government of Canada is taking further action to strengthen the protection of temporary foreign workers, Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism Minister Jason Kenney announced today.

“Temporary foreign workers play an important role in the Canadian economy,” the Minister said. “We have a duty to them, employers and all Canadians, to ensure that the program is fair and equitable.”

Today the Minister announced proposed regulatory amendments to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program which include:

a more rigorous assessment of the genuineness of the job offer;
limits to the length of a worker’s stay in Canada before returning home; and
a two-year prohibition from hiring a temporary foreign worker for employers found to have provided significantly different wages, working conditions or occupations than promised.

One of the factors in assessing the genuineness of a job offer would be an employer’s past compliance with federal or provincial labour laws – which in some cases prohibit the charging of fees, for example. Employers found to be in violation may be refused authorization to hire a foreign worker.
Source

Post removed

2009-10-10T00:22:00.000+01:00

I was asked to remove the last post I made which was an extract from an e-mail I recieved.

There was one comment left about if, which I will post here, as it's very typical of what I hear from many people at H&R (who wish to remain anonymous).

"I have just read this and would like to point out that H & R drivers have tried to stick up for themselves as most of them have invested a lot of money into moving abroad with their families and have hit a brick wall with the company.

I am not running H & R down, but they have a high turn over of staff for reason.

I feel they need to take a good look at the way their dispatch team work and about their poor communications skills between drivers and the work loads as this is costing the company a lot of money & time.

For this company to strive, they need to work closely with drivers and not so called driver relations (who are just covering their own backsides) "

Trucking companies and the Canadian Government wage subsidies.

2009-09-29T22:56:00.000+01:00

Was this true in 2005, and is it still true?

The repeated report that there is a shortage of drivers within the trucking industry is simply incorrect. There is a shortage of drivers who are willing to accomodate the carrier and his every whim legal or otherwise for the dollar. There are lots of million- mile-accident-free drivers out in the work force but few are willing to drive any more for the monies being offered and non-compliance of labor laws by the carriers. This driver shortage myth is one also being perpetuated by the carriers and we feel it is just to fill the trucks with foreign drivers, and they are being subsidized by the govt paying part of those wages to the new immigrants.

Published on a Government website by...

Author: Canadian Professional Drivers Association
Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Edit: I was contacted by someone who had struggled to find my details, so now I will moderate comments, and if you want to contact me, just leave a comment with your details, and I won't publish it.
Just as Lyndon never allowed negative comments, or serious questions on his blog about H&R, I will now do similar on this blog, but I just might not allow any favourable (to H&R) comments instead, and I will (as usual) respect the confidence of anyone who contacts me.

Expolitation of British and European Long Haul Truck Drivers In Canada.

2009-09-17T15:18:00.000+01:00

It was explained to me in a recent 'anonymous' comment that, although I had been actively recruited here in the UK by H&R transport as an OTR driver in Canada, I had only myself to blame for actually taking them up on the offer, and earning less than was promised in the contract...

"...you started the job at the queitest time in transport at the begining of the worst reccession since ww2 during the worst canadian winter for years as an unproven driver"

He also asks...

"did they drag u over here kicking and screaming? put a gun to your head maybe?"

What I can't understand is the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude' of some people who are over there, and have managed to survive, but who now choose to ignore the behaviour of the company towards new recruits, and even seem to relish the fact that some families have had to return to the UK completely broke!

There are certainly some people who made the move who are lazy, or shirkers, but I would say that the majority would be happy to work hard and earn a decent living, but, unlike nurses, police officers etc, who arrive and start earning a wage (cosistent and guaranteed) without the need to pay for their own retraining, truck drivers have to shell out for the class 1 licence, and then they only earn when the company gives them runs, even when they are sitting outside, on the company premises waiting, and waiting, but certainly ready to work...all unpaid.

Would the aformentioned nurses and Police officers, even bankers, IT workers, etc be willing to move, lock stock and barrel to a new country with no guaranteed monthly/weekly earnings from their new employer?

I don't think so, and it seems now, neither do the Federal Government if this note from a recent correspondent is anything to go by.

"I was told that the Federal Government Is becoming increasingly concerned about the exploitation of Truck drivers that come to Canada, and are drawing up new guidelines for the contracts employers offer to TFWs, to remove any vague wording, make firmer commitments regarding wages paid and generally improve the conditions offered."

I'm sure here will be plenty of drivers out there who will stick up for the bad companies (they aren't all the same you see) and continue to deride anyone who decides that being ripped off is not a good thing, and returns to the UK to prepare for a better move next time.

Earnings at H&R Transport Lethbridge Alberta during 2008/2009

2009-09-11T15:18:00.000+01:00

I will double check my earnings from H&R at the weekend, and post them here, including a full breakdown of all the time I was available to work, but left idle by the dispatchers, the point being, that if you are willing and able to work, but are left sitting, there is NO INCOME for those periods.

As H&R Transport are recruiting in the UK very soon, I'm sure the figures will make interesting reading for anyone who intends being a TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER, on a TEMPORARY WORK PERMIT for them, with a view to gaining landed status as a permanent resident, and may be going to Canada as a long haul (OTR) truck driver, with little money behind them, and maybe a family to feed and house.

Some people make 'plenty' of money, but live in the truck alone, and don't have to send anything back to the UK or pay rent/mortgage, whereas others live as couples in the truck, or as single drivers with a partner in rented/mortgaged property near base, who until recently could not even work, unless they had a work permit to allow them to do so, and really struggle to make ends meet UNLESS they get the promised 10-12,000 miles per month as stated in the contract in order to attain the guaranteed (in the contract) earnings.

Since I took over Caths blog and posted about H&R I have been contacted by many people who are back in the UK (or still in Canada, and one in the USA), who moved on because the contract they had with H&R was not fulfilled, or was simply flouted and if I didn't mail you back , then please e-mail me again here... mickfly AT gmail DOT com.

Here's a few questions for non-truckers.

If I were to offer you a job with a promised yearly salary of xxx amount, would you be prepared to come to the office every morning and sit all day (unpaid) then go home happy at 7pm because there was no work?

You can't leave the office, because you may miss a job offer.

Would you be prepared to sit in the office waiting from, say 8am (they knew you would be available to work at that time) until 7pm (unpaid) and then work all night until maybe 8am the next day?

You can't refuse the job offer because then you would have waited all day for zilch!

Would you be happy with this scenario?
Would you think it was fair and reasonable if it was a regular, common occurrence?

It's the Canadian way buddy... suck it up.

Another one bites the dust.

2009-09-03T13:35:00.001+01:00

Spot the popular blogger (click it to enlarge) and, soon to be ex employee, of the company, in this wintry picture from my mentor trip with him.
They will be losing a hard working employee, but won't give a damn about him, because as they will tell you..."if you don't like it, there's a queue of others waiting at the airport for your job".

The driver in the picture was Mike Nash, and after a year at H&R Transport...they refused to sponsor him for PR, and he's not the only one!

"Someone should say something?"

2009-08-28T16:15:00.000+01:00

I thought it would be easier to answer a recent comment here, on the main page.

From Gareth Ex H&R driver, still living in Canada. There comes a point when people really got to move on with their lives.

Thanks for the comment Gareth.
I have moved on with my life in all respects, but this little blog only takes moments, and it's the fact that many people have had to return to the UK through mainly no fault of their own and suffer the losses, whilst H&R just carry on with their lives, that has made me keep it up, plus the abuse from their recruiter, which has just made me more determined.

Were people go wrong is if you try to drive for a company in Canada expecting them to work by UK standards, wash that out of your head the moment you get on the plane.

I was prepared for different working conditions and standards

You cant say every driving job is a bed of roses in the UK, cause I sure worked for some cowboy's. If you have only ever drove in the UK, not experienced European work then Canada is not for you.

I never mentioned about UK driving on the blog but yes, I have worked for cowboys, and I don't see a comparison with European driving and Canadian, apart from the distances you might be expected to drive, and the fiddling of time!

Driving in the UK is easy, low miles, loads of breaks and paid by the hour.

Last night I drove my max 9 hrs, to within a couple of mins, (I had already done my two 10 hr stints this week) with a duty time of 13 and a qtr hrs, just under 500 miles, and ONE break of 45 mins, so, easy? yes, but not as easy as the driving I did in Canada/USA, low miles?, yes a little lower in comparison, paid by the hour?, yes, but my posts are about H&R in particular, and not really about comparisons with the UK

1. Can I work long hours, sometimes without pay?

Long hours, yes, but should I really have to work any hours without pay?

2. Can I wait for loads without getting pissed off?

Yes, if I'm being paid detention of some sort

3. Can I drive 650 miles a day regardless of how long it takes me?4. Can I be flexible with my wage, cause I havent got my trip envelope in?

I would struggle to drive 650 miles a day if I had been waiting around for the dispatch since 6am, and was then expected to drive those miles at 7pm.

Would any employee be happy to make themselves available for work at 6am then sit in the office all day with the promise of paid work then be told to start their proper work at 7pm, and work 13 hrs, effectively being available for 26 hrs straight?

5. Can I just get on with my work without questioning and second guessing my dispatchers?

Shouldn't I question my 'superiors'?

Dave Caldwell has also given his answers to you, and he's still very happy with his lot in Canada, even though he had to change companies a few times to get better conditions, and, incidentaly, because he did change jobs, he got a ton of personal abuse from the H&R recruiter in the BTA forum!

In reply to your later comment Gareth:

...it make a change from the same old, poor me comments

Please don't think I am asking for sympathy here, I have heard the poor me comments, ie " I wanted to be back in Leth every Friday to go out on the piss with the lads", kind of thing, but, as I have said on the blog, We were willing to stay out for 30 days and reset anywhere, as the truck was proper cosy, but we simply didn't get the trips! It's not 'poor me', it's WTF!, where's all this work we were promised in orientation?

No-one including myself should have to work under bad conditions but if you have a heads up and know what to expect then why be shocked and outraged when things go tits-up.

Heads up?, where was that then?
The blogs are censored to some extent, so unless you were reading between the lines, there was practically no negative information available, and anyone who returned to the UK and posted anything critical on the forums was immediately flamed, and sent scuttling with their tail between their legs (as whinging loser Brits) by the recruiter, and other people who had never even been to Canada, but didn't want to believe the negative side (ME INCLUDED), so, if I can post FACTS about my personal experience on an internet blog, then there is a 'heads up' here for people who are going over.

...shocked and outraged...

I was shocked, outraged and upset, to see people in tears at the H&R office after a bullying session, to visit a driver in the mental hospital in Lethbridge, to see people borrowing money because they were potless, to see people who were afraid to speak out about their low wages and shoddy treatment, because they are desperate for PR, etc etc...

As a Brit, I am used to feeling grateful for anything I get, and although I was grateful to H&R for making it easier to get over to Canada (although it's the Gov't who allows it) they did not do it because they love the British..it is simply to increase their bottom line...nothing else...it's PROFIT, and as a capitalist, I fully understand it, but don't expect me to sit back and accept how they treat TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKERS.

If my posts on this blog change even one bad practise at H&R then I have done more than all the ones who moan and bitch but say...

"SOMEONE should do something about it!"

Censorship at H&R Transport

2009-08-27T13:05:00.000+01:00

Censorship of bloggers is still alive and well at H&R, but I'm sure I don't have to go into detail, as regular readers of the BTA forum will be well aware of what I mean, and the absence of posts from some bloggers lately, and the disappearance/privatisation of some blogs will attest to that.

Perhaps the only place left where drivers can be completely honest about the companies they work for, and the treatment they receive at their hands is on forums like BTA (British Truckers Abroad).

The recruiter at H&R was well aware of the powers of forums when he started his own thread at one such forum, with the opening invitation, thus:

"This thread is dedicated to H & R Transport. Its a place where past, present and future employees can, ask questions, share stories, get "inside" info, gossip and also hopefully have a little moan too.

We all want to know what we are letting ourselves in for..."

He was since booted from two forums for then slagging off anyone who was critical of said company LOL LOL.

It's a great shame that the negative comments I had on this bog were all trying to stifle criticism of H&R, rather than addressing the points I had made regarding unpaid downtime, and bullying (yes, I know it's the Canadian way, but it doesn't make it the right way), but instead choose to label everyone who has gone back to the UK skint and disgusted, as just losers who couldn't hack it.

One of the couples who got in touch with me (Deb and Rick) are from my neck of the woods, and far from being losers, they gave up a hell of a lot to go and work in Canada, and they only lasted 5 months (like us) before their bank account (amongst other things) showed them the error of their ways, but luckily for them, they are both back at work, and on the way up again.

In the main, people who go to Canada to work (and hopefully get PR) do not do so lightly, and it has never been my intention to denigrate the efforts they have made, even if it means them sucking up and giving in to company bullying, as I would have done exactly the same if I believed there was a chance of PR at the end of it all.
Cath herself was asked to remove something from this blog before I had even turned a wheel for H&R, so maybe I was on the defensive from the beginning, and obviously nothing has changed.

For anyone who has returned to the UK (under any circumstances), but not been paid their return fare, as in my case, the company has to make efforts to contact you:

3. Should I keep documents to prove that transportation costs have been paid?

Records of all transportation costs (i.e., invoices, receipts, copies of flight itineraries/ tickets/ boarding passes) should be kept for a minimum of six years, as stipulated in other provincial and federal legislations, such as the Income Tax Act.

5. If a worker quits without giving notice, do I still have to pay his/her return transportation costs?

Yes, you must pay return transportation costs as long as his/her work permit has not expired.

7. Am I responsible for return transportation even if I do not know where the worker is?

Yes, you are responsible until the worker's work permit expires. The only exceptions are listed under Q6 (not applicable to unskilled TFW's who have left the country or gone to another employer). It is recommended that you keep records of efforts you made to reach the worker to demonstrate that you made appropriate efforts.

8. What steps should I take if I do not know where the worker is?

You must make reasonable efforts to reach the worker and keep documents that support your efforts.

If you can not reach him/her, you should contact the Canada Border Services Agency immediately to request an investigation. You should also inform Service Canada and Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

Edit: Dave Foder has now contacted me on behalf of H&R, to arrange payment of my return fare.

More miles in the UK than Canada

2009-08-23T10:43:00.000+01:00

I've been too busy to post for a while, as I'm getting more miles over here than I was in Canada at the moment, including two Rochesters, a Swindon and a Weybridge this week.

Phil Henderson (Montedarlo) has had some bad luck with his health last week, but hopefully he is on the mend (he says he feels great), and will soon be back to work.
Get well soon mate, you are one of the best liked people over there, and it's not nice to hear that you were in hospital.

Here's a picture which George Anderson (The Big Trip) sent me, of some 1,600 lbs bales in the Prairies which had been blown along by the wind, apparently up to five miles in some cases!

George is on his way back to the UK shortly after a fairly long stretch at H&R in Canada, and we wish him the best of luck with whatever he does next.

Meanwhile, Lyndon has a strange post showing a street in Nottingham, where apparently a rude comment came from, but as he moderates all his comments to allow only supportive ones, how the heck did an abusive one get posted?

Lyndons annoyance at his anonymous posters made me laugh as he has posted anonymous abusive comments on this blog a few times, even slagging off his own colleagues in the office! but, unfortunately for my anonymous posters (this blog is not moderated) , the tracker I use is a little more refined , and really does pinpoint visitors accurately.

Mike Nash (Mikes Jolly In Canada) had a chat with me on Skype yesterday whilst he's broken down, and he's had a great time recently when his family were over for a visit, but he was also complaining about anon posters (including Lyndon) who were pissing him off, but he is also using a similar tracker to me, so I suggest that the comments posters should either use their real names, or accept the consequences.

There are some new blogs added to the sidebar on the right who either have arrived in Canada, or are in the process of going over, and we both wish them all the very best of luck with their adventures, and hope they get plenty of miles and better treatment than we had, so have a look and their blogs and give them some support.

Our own journey with H&R (maybe not Canada) is nearly over, but I am in the process of contacting D'Arcy Foder and others regarding contractual obligations which have not been met regarding the LMO conditions, which is not incidentally the actions of a 'moaning Brit', but merely of someone who does not let bullies walk all over him.

Here's something to make the ex pats homesick (Not) a beautiful summer scene in the english countryside LOL

Edit:
Update.
Sorry Lyndon, I've read your comments on your blog, and I am not falsely accusing you of making anonymous abusive posts on here, if you really want me to I can post the timestamped server logs with your IP address on them, and all the entry and exit links.
You were quick enough to accuse someone of doing it on yours, and were good enough to post their IP addy and details, but it looks like you are mistaking click through links for IP sources.

I was also aware of the immigration annex at the same time as you, so I posted it at the same time as you (but with a different emphasis), and as you said, it's public domain, but, if you want to talk about plagiarism, shouldn't you be removing all the copyright material off your 'big red blog' which has been simply cut and pasted from all over the place?

I would have been happy to post this on your blog comments section instead of here, as it seems a bit pathetic defending myself against you in public but you moderate all your comments don't you?

You were quite right when you said there is an alternative story to yours available for people to read (or ignore) and you are doing yourself and the company no favours by trying to stifle honest debate, because when you comment about my employment at H&R Transport I take it as a comment from an H&R employee (the recruiter/driver relations guy), not as a personal comment from you, in fact, you may be doing a great deal of harm to H&R.

Don't forget Lyndon you are a small fish in a big pond, and as such, can be dispensed with if you are seen to be causing economic harm to the company.

Good news.

2009-08-15T14:21:00.000+01:00

A part of The Agreement for Canada-Alberta Cooperation on Immigration Annex which allows the spouse of an Temporary Foreign Worker, who is here as a long haul truck driver to obtain their own 'open' work permit has now been given a start date of August 14th, which can only be good news for couples who are considering moving over to Alberta as temporary foreign workers (you are not emigrating, until you apply for, and receive Permanent Residency), and both need to work.

There are other parts of the Annex which would bring even better news for drivers who have not had the miles/earnings which were promised, or feel they have been otherwise unfairly treated by the Long Haul companies.

6.4 Alberta will establish a TFW Advisory Office that will provide a point of referral and advocacy for TFW seeking assistance related to, among other things, dissatisfaction with working conditions. In enforcing the Employment Standards Code, Alberta will seek, to the extent possible, to ensure the wages, working conditions, and related obligations of employers to Temporary Foreign Workers are also consistent with the Service Canada Labour Market Opinion and the work permit.

6.7 Canada agrees to implement a pilot project in Alberta to issue open work permits to TFW upon recommendations from the Advisory Office described in section 6.4 of this Annex, in cases where employers or employment agencies have not complied with relevant federal or provincial laws pertaining to the treatment of TFW, to the serious detriment of the worker.

Click here for the full annex

Psychic contact from H&R?

2009-08-06T20:21:00.000+01:00

According to a driver mate of mine in Canada, the recruiter actually spoke to me the other day, and I told him something about that particular driver, well I'm sorry to disappoint anyone, but I certainly didn't speak to the recruiter, although I did speak to someone recently in Canada, who may have passed some info onto the recruiter, which he then tried to use against someone.

It's pathetic.

It's very telling how the bullying regime at H&R continues (in the form of anonymous comments) across to a simple blog from an ex employee, who is simply telling the truth about this bunch of pirates, who avoid paying their employees properly, and even open their bank statements!

The events of recent days have now made me more determined to take this whole shennanigans even further down the legal/political route.

More personal insults from H&R!

2009-08-01T09:30:00.000+01:00

The personal insults were directed at someone else this time.

I have just had to remove 2 posts from the comments section as one of them was clearly racist against Canadians, and offensive to people in the office at H&R, and the other comment I removed was an angry (quite rightly) response.

The comment which pertained to come from an H&R office worker was not posted in Canada.

I've left another comment on, which complains about the previous comment then also goes on to insult people as well.

"The description of an office worker is someone who was employed by the company to carry out the duties in an office, not a so-called driver who fakes his illness and basically is a stamp licker on light duties whilst claiming sick benefit."

I know exactly who the last comment poster was (and the next post, one min later, which agreed with themselves LOL) , I will not identify them, but please, if you are so cowardly that you have to post anonymously, at least don't compound the deceit, by stating that..."Well as driver of H & R myself I disagree with this...", when in fact, you are no longer a driver!

I have complained about the H&R dispatchers a few times since I started posting here, but I should add that I know that most of the problems stem from higher up at planning level, and the dispatchers must bear the brunt of all the complaints from unhappy drivers, although I stick to my criticism of the dispatcher, Andy, who left us high and dry on a few occasions whilst he went home, leaving other dispatchers to get us moving when they were made aware of our predicament.
Dispatching is one job I would not relish myself, especially if you are being told to lie to drivers constantly.

Personal Insults?

2009-07-26T13:11:00.000+01:00

Unfortunately I can't respond on Lyndons blog to this comment he made...

"Yeah i know hes already started, thing is though you cant let muppets like that phase you and thats all hes trying to do.

You know what really makes my blood boil, i showed him and his wife hospitality when they first came over.
Its all in the upbringing i guess."

...as he moderates all his comments, to show only favourable and supportive ones.

This blog is relatively un-censored, so feel free to either agree, or disagree with me here in the comments section.

Search all you like, here or on BTA , you will probably only find one personal insult here towards Lyndon.

I have asked you questions as 'the recruiter' for H&R, and all you have done by way of reply is accuse me of being...

"unable to hack it", and of being 'sad, pathetic, bitter, spiteful, obsessive, jealous, resentful, blinkered, untrustworthy, disgruntled and 'cyber brave', wanting 15 mins of fame, and now I'm a muppet who has been brought up badly!

What did I do to get these insults?

I criticised H&R, and their recruiter!

Dear reader, search every comment on this blog and you will not see any answers to the questions I asked about H&R from Lyndon 'the recruiter/driver relations guy', only distraction tactics and personal, sarcastic remarks towards ANYONE who dares question H&R.

There is a comment on Lyndons personal blog, from Jo, thus..

"Been reading the slagging off on that other blog Lyndon...you are being very dignified, much respect to you."

Slagging off?

Please point it out to me Jo.

Dignified?

Jo you obviously didn't follow the links to Lyndons (dignified) posts on BTA, did you?

Edit: (addition) Lyndon says, in reply to jo... "Really appreciate the comments, i think most people can see through what hes trying to do...."

Ok Lyndon, fill us in, just what am I trying to do?

Edit: I'm still waiting for an answer Lyndon (August 15th)

Canadian Trucking Lost 3,300 Jobs in April

2009-07-25T20:48:00.000+01:00

The Canadian trucking industry lost 3,300 jobs in April, making it the third-worst industry in the country for that month, Statistics Canada reported.

A big hit for trucking jobs in Canada, but H&R still need to recruit in the UK?

Source.

Finally, an explanation (NOT).

2009-07-24T14:51:00.000+01:00

After whinging about my treatment and lack of earnings at H&R for a month, I have finally had an explanation from an anonymous poster in the comments section.

"People that are intelligent enough to see the big picture know that paycuts are no surprise. We are in a global recession, HELLOO!!! So there are less loads to move by canadian trucking company's. So there are more drivers available to work. So a company like H&R gets lots of applications. So they can get their possitions filled, even if they pay less."

O.K., I'm not too intelligent, so perhaps the commenter can explain why, if...

"there are less loads to move by canadian trucking company's. So there are more drivers available to work. So a company like H&R gets lots of applications. So they can get their possitions filled, even if they pay less."

...the company goes to the expense of coming to the UK to recruit, when they have such a big pool of drivers available in Canada to move the declining amount of freight?

As usual I will ask the question to 'the recruiter', or Dave Foder, but I won't hold my breath for an answer.

Pay cut? What pay cut?

2009-07-20T09:55:00.000+01:00

In the light of the recent pay reductions at H&R Transport, you would think that 'the driver relations guy' would not seek to antagonise his fellow workers, but instead he chooses the re-launch of his blog to brag about the hot tub he just got, and now the two new cars !

Obviously he wants to rub peoples noses in it!

It's always worth remembering that "Pride comes before a fall", and it's hardly the right time to boast about your new purchases.

Just my opinion.

Edit:
My first blog post here which was actually about H&R was on 1st July, 19 days ago, but I keep being told in the comments section that I should 'Let It Go', and I am obsessive.
If half a dozen critical internet posts about a company can get people worried about my health, then I thank you for your concern, but please take the trouble to actually read what I have posted!
Be sure to read the comment replies to these posts, they are very telling.

Get me home!

2009-07-19T12:35:00.000+01:00

One of the most annoying things that happens at H&R is their inability to get people to their home base at a reasonable time for their legal re-set, even though they know to the hour when you will be in Calgary, ready to go to Lethbridge.
This mainly effects people with families, who may not have seen their wife and kids for a couple of weeks!

An ex driver posted on his blog about it last year...

Stranded in Calgary (Again)

This is one thing that really bugs the crap out of me, waiting to have my time off and being stuck waiting 250 kms from home and waiting for a load to get me back to Lethbridge.

Aaagh!!!

You see there is a conflict of interests here, H&R (quite rightly i guess) wont send me till there is a load coz bobtailling wastes diesel, as does deadhead (running with an empty trailer), there are always runs north and south up and down the southern Province so its just a case of waiting.

And from my point of view "I JUST WANT TO GET HOME DAMMIT".

Nothing changes eh, Lyndon ? (He's the one who posted it).

Damage Limitation Exercise By H&R Transport?

2009-07-16T18:45:00.000+01:00

It's strange that there were only a few comments on Caths blog whilst everything was rosy, but since I started to tell the truth about H&R things have hotted up a bit!

Lyndon has disappeared from the comments section, and suddenly lots of people have found the blog and BTA forum and are running to the defence of H&R.
The latest one is 'wanderer' who says...

"I've worked over this side of the pond for nearly 6 years now and all i hear from brits are how bad canadian truck firms are, you cant expect to come across here and bring the uk trucking industry protocols with you this is Canada not the uk, if you expect to work the same as you did in the uk well then just stay there and get on with you life. H&R gave you the chance of living and working in canada and all you guys do is back stab and dis the company, do us all a favour shut down you blog and stay in the uk. You could not hack working here but some of us enjoy this job, H&R transport are like any other large company and need to show a profit, you work you get paid, there are many companies here that are not even close to H&R rates of pay, I get paid well and as my name states i wander everywhere not rushing to get back to Lethbridge to spend my money in the bar at the sandman like many of you companions."

To answer you...

You've been over there for nearly six years and "all i hear from brits are how bad canadian truck firms are", then does that not tell you something about the industry?

"all you guys do is back stab and dis the company"

Us guys?
I can only see me here, and I'm certainly not backstabbing, I'm not anonymous (like you are)(Edit: He has since explained himself as not being anonymous in the comments section), and anyone can (and do ) contact me.
The comments here are not moderated, except where they are offensive, but Lyndon moderates on both his blogs, to prevent dissenting remarks, but more importantly, to avoid questions.

"do us all a favour shut down you blog and stay in the uk."

I am staying in the UK for now, and I have been asked to step the blog up a gear rather than shut it down, but you have the right to try and stifle debate on the internet, which is still the only place to see the truth.

"You could not hack working here but some of us enjoy this job"

Another person using the same worn out phrase as a personal insult!
If you had really read the blog or the BTA posts you would know that I loved the job, but did not get the good runs, even though I had offered to stay out 30 days without returning to Lethbridge!

"H&R transport are like any other large company and need to show a profit, you work you get paid,..."

Of course any large (or small) company need to make a profit, and if that means it's at the expense of the workforce, then so be it.
It would have been nice to get the amount of work I wanted, and was willing and able to do, but maybe my face didn't fit, as I started off on the wrong foot with Foder after he wanted Caths (non-employee) blog censoring!

"not rushing to get back to Lethbridge to spend my money in the bar at the sandman like many of you companions"

You're on a loser there with me, I hardly drink, and we went in the Sandman bar twice in all the time we were there.
You sound like a single man, and there is no comparison with a single man living in the truck, and a man who has family (with a non working wife) living in rented accommodation, with no nest egg in the bank.
The simple question for a family is... is our Canadian bank balance going up (even a little) or down?

There are exceptions such as Wiebe, and some others, but, the figures for 'failures' must be enormous, and most will keep quiet as they feel embarrassed!

When we first started driving for H&R there had just been some problems with Euro drivers, and the message on the qualcom and from Foder at the time was...

"You are at the right place, doing the right thing, with the right people"

Seems like paranoia to me! but keep sending the sheeple to comment Lyndon.

Finally.

Enjoy your pay cuts...it's what companies need to do to keep in profit!

Driver turnover at H & R Transport.

2009-07-14T14:12:00.000+01:00

It's a shame that the recruiter at H&R has taken to insulting me in the previous comments sections of this blog by assuming certain things, then making sarcastic comments about me.
It's obvious that he (Lyndon) is taking my criticism of H&R (here and on the BTA forum) as a personal attack on him as a private person, whilst I am in fact simply asking a question of him, as the 'driver relations guy' and recruiter for the company.

It seems like a long time since Lyndon posted this...

"This thread is dedicated to H & R Transport. Its a place where past, present and future employees can, ask questions, share stories, get "inside" info, gossip and also hopefully have a little moan too.

We all want to know what we are letting ourselves in for..."

It was, of course, before he became a recruiter.

I'm busy working on a night trunk this week, a nice round trip of 450 miles at a slow 55 mph, but I get paid for every minute I am there which means a lot, and at night and overtime rates it will be twice what I was earning at H&R.

Finally, there is a new poster at the BTA forums, 'insideinsider' who thinks they know all about me, so perhaps they can grow some balls and identify themselves there, instead of making cowardly remarks.

Maybe they (as an 'insideinsider') can answer the question, which I know other people (who are considering moving to Canada) want an answer to also.

What is the turnover rate for foreign and Canadian drivers at H&R?

Am I being unfair in asking company for a small snippet of information about their business, and are they refusing to answer because it is far greater than the national average for Canadian trucking companies?

I have asked the question, as have others on the BTA forum, but were met with abuse from the recruiter, so I won't hold my breath, and as Lyndon moderates his comments on his blogs, he can choose to ignore anything he doesn't want to post, which is why the blog never saw dissent in the comments section from disgruntled drivers I suppose.

Pay rates lowered at H&R Transport

2009-07-12T14:14:00.000+01:00

From August the 3rd new drivers at H&R will be getting lower mileage rates (see previous comments sections), but now, the existing drivers are getting certain reductions as well!

No mention of this on Lyndons two blogs , although he did say in the comments here , that his private blog is not about work, it's only about him and his family, even though he has locked a half page recruitment poster to his header.

There is an interesting post from a Canadian which mentions H&R on the BTA forum (it's easy to join, it's impartial, and it only takes a minute to get in) where there is also lots more info for people who are prospective temporary workers in Canada.

Have you been shafted by H&R?

Tell me... mickfly AT gmail.com

H&R transport, driver retention rates?

2009-07-08T10:30:00.000+01:00

H&R transport, Lethbridge, are coming back to the UK, albeit offering less money for new drivers

There is now another recruitment drive for UK drivers from H and R transport in Lethbridge, but does anyone know what their driver retention/turnover rate is?

The question has been asked a few times on the BTA forum (where there is much more info on Canadian trucking companies), but it remains unanswered.

The British Truckers Abroad (BTA) forum also has stories from people at H&R and other Canadian trucking companies, both positive and negative, with some input from the H&R transport recruiter Lyndon, you can also find a post there with my earnings and other FACTS regarding mileage and hours on the forum.

Sour grapes?

Read my figures on the H&R wages section of the BTA forum, and make your own mind up.

Please don't post offensive remarks to anyone in the comments section below, as I will remove them.

NB: This is in no way meant to put people off going to Canada, which we absolutely loved, and if you are a regular reader, you will also know we loved the actual job, but be wary, you are only a temporary worker until you get PR.

Edit: The offer to read about my dissapointing time at H&R on here and on BTA is also open to Al Foder, D'arcy Foder, David Foder and Cathy Thacker, where they may also explain how my Canadian bank statements had been opened before they were forwarded to me in the UK.

Lyndon returns to blogging

2009-07-03T13:43:00.000+01:00

post by Mic

It's been a while since Lyndon stopped blogging, but he's now back, so it would be a great opportunity for anyone who is considering working for H&R to ask him questions that he could answer in his capacity as 'recruiter' for H&R transport.
Please ask the questions via the comments section on his blog, so other people can see the answers he gives.

BTW: Thanks for all the e-mails in support of my last post, but you (the guys who e-mailed) could also leave the same remarks about H&R in the comment section (below) even if you choose to be anonymous, so there will be no danger of you being sacked.

Edit: It seems that Lyndon does not want to answer questions about H&R via his regular, family blog, so feel free to ask them at the 'Big Red Blog'.

You can, of course ask them in the comments section on here.

post by Mick

Regrets, I've had a few...

2009-07-01T12:58:00.000+01:00

Post by Mick:

This post is in reply 'Dom' who commented on the last post, he asks the question:

"...having time to digest the last six months have you made the right decision to stay back here or are you regretting not gritting your teeth and carrying on over there?"

Neither of us regret anything about our time in Canada except our experience with H&R, the people we met were fantastic, we liked the country, and also enjoyed running the USA, but if I were to return it would be with a different company, but in the meantime, Cath has taken up an opportunity which might allow us to move and work in Spain/Portugal in the future, so we will see how it goes.

The reasons we didn't return to H&R after our vacation were:

After working out the figures for my time at H&R I was simply not earning enough for the hours I was available, and the company treat you like a second class citizen.

The earning potential for truckers in Canada is excellent, BUT, you need to get good, long, frequent runs with no UNPAID stand downs anywhere.
When you offer to stay out for 30 days and re-set anywhere, then are given the Rockies 605 miles and Moses lake 580 miles regularly, with LOTS of sitting around UNPAID, then someone in the office needs a kick up the arse.

A view of the unofficial yard at Delta.

The proper yard in Delta is a quagmire when it's wet, and a dustbowl when it's dry, much like Calgary, but in Delta there is only a portaloo, so many drivers try to park at the Chevron.

If I had 'gritted my teeth' things might have improved, but I was never desperate for PR, so I didn't have to accept being treated like a second class citizen (there is no disrespect intended here for the people who want PR and are happy to plod on with the company)

If only H&R would treat people consistently and fairly, and allow everyone to achieve their potential they would not have such a bad retention rate for drivers (not only Europeans), even though the industry in general in North America is being affected by the economic decline.

A bit of rare honesty taken from the H&R 'Big Red Book'

Here's part of a recent comment to one of Caths blog posts from an ex driver:

"Life in Canada is good outside H&R, there are good companies to drive for and work outside driving, you just have to look about. We have many good friends here that have made a good life after Hell & Regret Transport."

For the people who read the "H&R blogs", you must ask yourself a few questions.

Do the authors mention H&R in a good light very often?

Do the authors 'NEED' a good income?

Do they 'NEED' or want PR (permanent residence, in Canada)?

There is no doubt that there are many drivers at H&R who are quite content with their lot, and I have had an e-mail from one such, but all the rest of the e-mails I have recieved have told the same story as me regarding low earnings, with lots of unpaid downtime, and these seem to be experienced, hard working and trampers, not all newbies.
There may be people wondering if I (we) just couldn't hack it, but I assure you, we loved the actual job, driving in the extreme weather never bothered me a bit, and we both were very comfortable living in the truck.

When the Canadian Gov't decide that truck drivers from abroad are no longer required, then the people who did not gain PR will be refused new work permits, because, as I said on an earlier post...

If you are a trucker who has got a job offer in Canada via PNP, and you are telling all and sundry that you are emigrating to Canada.

You are NOT emigrating to Canada !

When you get an LMO (labor market opinion), the LMO simply allows you to enter Canada as a TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER if you are granted a TEMPORARY work permit.

PR (permanent residency) can not be guaranteed by ANY company to a TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER, and you may be required to leave the country at any time.

Don't burn your bridges, and if you want to live in a great country, bring your kids up in a safer, calmer environment, and meet some great people, then keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, and suck it up!

All at the Sandman Hotel?

Post by Mick: